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饮迷访谈 Interview: Victor Urrutia

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DRiNK饮迷-V 发表于 2020-7-25 07:02:01 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式 打印 上一主题 下一主题
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创建于1879年的喜悦酒庄(简称是CVNE,发音成为“coo-nay”)是西班牙最杰出的酒庄之一。第五代家族成员及现任首席执行官在采访中谈到了西班牙葡萄酒的形象重塑,以及里奥哈应该感谢勃艮第的原因。Alexander Barlow撰文。

Founded in 1879, CVNE – an acronym for Compania Vinicola del Norte de Espana, pronounced “coo-nay” – is one of Spain’s most distinguished wineries. Fifth-generation family member and current chief exec talks about Spain’s critical re-anointment and why Rioja owes a debt to Burgundy. By Alexander Barlow.

饮迷:你的2004年皇家田园(至尊珍藏)红葡萄酒在2013年《葡萄酒观察家》杂志百大葡萄酒榜单中名列第一,但有人认为葡萄酒评论家的影响正在减退。这次获奖对你们酒庄的知名度有多大提升?

VU:我觉得评论家的影响本身可能下降了一点,我认为这仅仅是因为评论家的队伍大大地膨胀了。以前只有几位评论家——很少的几位。我仍然认为人们需要建议;现在人们可以获得的葡萄酒建议或评论实在是太多了,它们来自很多不同的渠道。这和葡萄酒行业现状有几分相符。发生的事情很多很多。行业太细分了⋯⋯很难找出流行的是什么,在某一个特定时期有太多事情发生了,有些还是互相矛盾的。但是,像《葡萄酒观察家》这样的杂志总是拥有越来越大的影响力。这是毫无疑问的。有人说他们的影响正在减退——这完全说反了,至少对我们酒庄而言是如此。它产生了巨大的影响。它使得皇家田园从一款圈内人的葡萄酒变成了⋯⋯呃,一个楷模。显然,它远不止于此,但我们非常感谢它对酒庄的巨大影响。

DRiNK: Your Rioja Imperial Gran Reserva 2004 ranked first in Wine Spectator’s Top 100 of 2013 list – some say the influence of wine critics is on the wane. How much impact has it had on your profile?

VU: I guess, maybe, the influence of the critic, as such, has declined somewhat, merely, I think, because there’s many more of them. Before it was just a few – very few. I still think people want advice – and there’s a ton of wine advice, or wine comment, out there – it’s just now it’s coming from many different sources. Which kind of fits in with what’s going on with the wine business. There’s so much going on. It’s so atomised… it’s hard to pick out trends, there are so many going on at a particular time and some of them are conflicting. But, then, things like Wine Spectator have more and more influence all the time. There’s no question. To say that their influence is declining, at least in our case, it’s the exact opposite. It’s made a huge difference. It’s taken Imperial from being an insiders wine to being, well… an icon. Clearly, it’s not just that, but we’re super grateful because it’s had such an impact for us.

饮迷:这是西班牙酒庄第一次获得此殊荣⋯⋯

VU:是的,这对我们来说当然是件大好事,但它也是全体西班牙葡萄酒的大好事。我分为三点来讲。第一,它是对西班牙葡萄酒的认可。第二,这一奖项以前从未颁发给这么成熟的一款酒。它产自2004年,到2013年12月获奖的时候已经有九年了——他们以前从未这样做过。这对我们来说意义重大。可能甚至不到五六年前,只要你关注杂志和获奖名单,还有帕克评分,它们大都青睐一两个年份之前的葡萄酒,老年份不是好事,而且它们都偏爱强劲、酒精度高和浓郁的葡萄酒。可能这是一种概论,但总体而言,所谓“帕克风格”是存在的,而许多人都在为它而努力⋯⋯

DRiNK: It was the first Spanish winery to win the award…

VU: Yes, it’s great news for us, of course, but it’s great news for Spanish wine as a whole. I think there are three points: first, it’s an endorsement of Spanish wine. Second, this award has never gone to a wine as mature as this one. It’s a 2004, in it’s ninth year, and we were given the award in December 2013 – they’ve never done that. For us, that’s significant. Maybe not even five or six years ago, you looked at all the magazine and awards, the Parker points, and they were given to wines, maybe one of two vintages back, at most, old was bad, and it was given to wines that were powerful, alcoholic, concentrated. It’s a generalisation, maybe, but, overall, there was such a thing as a “Parker style” and a lot of people were shooting for that…

饮迷:那篇文章实际上很有针对性:“从1990年代开始,传统酒庄就陷入了和新晋酿酒商的激烈论战之中。里奥哈应该保持从20世纪早期流传至今的柔和优雅风格吗?还是顺应全球红酒佳酿的潮流、采用一种更浓郁、更具结构感的方式呢?”这个奖项有点像是一种辩护——喜悦酒庄没有选择后一条路是正确的⋯⋯

VU:是的,我认为我们的葡萄酒并不是(“派克风格”的)完全对立面,但它们的确有很大不同。它们并非超级浓郁,而且并不适合在年轻时饮用。当然,它们也可以在年轻时饮用,但我们建议陈放一段时间,因为它们陈放后表现更出色。因此,这对我们很重要:十年前,我们完全不可能获得这个奖项,我们酿造的葡萄酒风格完全不同——而且我们是西班牙酒庄。

DRiNK: The article actually addresses that point: “Beginning in the 1990s, a vigorous debate pitted traditionalist bodegas against a new wave of vintners. Should Rioja maintain the supple, elegant style that had flourished since the early 20th century? Or adopt a richer, more structured approach more in harmony with the world’s other great reds?” This award is a vindication, of sorts, for CVNE not pursuing the latter…

VU: Yes, I’d say, our wines, are not exactly opposite [to “Parker style”], but they’re certainly very different from that. They’re not super concentrated, they’re not meant to be drunk young. Of course, you can drink them young, but we’re also happy if you hang on to them for a while, because they become better with time. So, to us, it was huge: ten years ago it would be unthinkable we would be the recipients of this award, we made wines in a completely different style – and we were Spanish.

饮迷:上里奥哈出产的葡萄酒风格有共同点的吗?

VU:优质上里奥哈葡萄酒往往比其他西班牙葡萄酒更朴实,它们的酸度更高,它们更精致、更芳香,酒精度和浓郁度较低。最好的上里奥哈葡萄酒是世界级的——我常常认为皇家田园是其中之一,它更优雅、更具葡萄酒特质,极具陈年潜力。人们经常把西班牙葡萄酒和其他地中海葡萄酒混为一谈,因为它们都是深色的,而且酒精度高,但实际上比起西班牙葡萄酒的典型形象,最好的上里奥哈葡萄酒更像勃艮第葡萄酒。这是我们想要说明的,因为大家一般不会把这两者联系在一起。

DRiNK: Can we make assumptions about the style of wines from Rioja Alta?

VU: Good Rioja Alta wines tend to be more austere than other Spanish wine, they will have higher acidity, they will be more delicate, more fragrant, less alcoholic, less concentrated. The best wines from Rioja Alta are world class – I like to think Imperial is one of those: more elegant, more vinous, built to age. People often associate Spanish wine with the rest of the Mediterranean, in the sense they should be dark and alcoholic, but, in fact, the best wines from Rioja Alta have much more in common with, say, Burgundy, than with the typical image of Spanish wines, and this is what we try to explain, because people don’t generally make that connection.

饮迷:勃艮第葡萄酒在这近几年越来越流行,这一定是对你们酒庄有所推动⋯⋯

VU:是的,我不知道中国消费者是否会把它们联系在在一起,但在美国是这样的⋯⋯在美国,我们介绍自己的产品时会用勃艮第来做类比。我会说:“你知道,更微妙优雅的风格也不错。”以前,人们可能会不理解,但现在勃艮第如此热门——至少在美国和欧洲是这样,它们帮了我们很多,我们对此深怀感激。

DRiNK: So the rise in popularity in Burgundy wine in the past few years must’ve given you a boost…

VU: Yes, I don’t know if people make the association in China yet but in the US… What happens there, when we explain our wines, we use Burgundy as the door-opener. I say, “You know, it’s OK to be more delicate, elegant”. Before, people might’ve had a problem with that, but now, Burgundy is so much the thing to drink, at least in the US and Europe, they’ve helped us out so much, so we owe them a debt of gratitude.

饮迷:但它不仅仅是迎合潮流,对吗?比如你们酒庄在1920年代所创建的维纳品牌,它们总是采用勃艮第酒瓶⋯⋯

VU:是的,过去的人们目的很明确——这不是一个失误。维纳总是采用勃艮第酒瓶。很多人都告诉我们:“你应该换掉它,它不时尚。”但最后我们坚持了自己的信念。我们这么做是有原因的,一百年前勃艮第酒瓶象征着美味、微妙、优雅和适合陈年的葡萄酒风格。我们认为维纳和勃艮第颇为相像,事实上,它们在陈年后与陈年勃艮第黑皮诺不无相似之处。当然,它们以不同的葡萄品种为原料,但(在杯中)并非完全不同。如果你有机会同时品鉴老年份维纳和老年份勃艮第,你会发现它们没有很大不同,维纳在某些情况下一样出色,甚至还要更佳。最大的不同在于价格⋯⋯上等勃艮第是大部分普通人负担不起的。但对我们而言却不是如此——谢天谢地。

DRiNK: But it’s not just butting in on the trend, is it? Your Vina Real brand, founded in the 1920s, for instance, always came in a Burgundy bottle…

VU: Yes, people in the past did think things through – it’s no mistake. Vina Real has always come in a Burgundy bottle. And many times, we were told, “Oh, you should change that, it’s not fashionable.” But, in the end, we stuck to our guns, and it came in a Burgundy bottle, because even back in those days, a hundred years ago, it was recognised as a wine that was more gastronomic and savoury, delicate and elegant, and built to last. And we thought, Well, this has a lot in common with a Burgundy, and, in fact, aged Vina Real, is not totally dissimilar to aged pinot noir from Burgundy. Of course, they’re a different variety, different fruit, but they’re not totally different [in the glass]. If you get the chance to taste old Vina Real next to old Burgundy, you will see there is not a huge difference; in some cases the Vina Real can be as good, or even better. The biggest difference is price…  The best from Burgundy can be out of reach for most ordinary people. But, in our case, we’re not quite there yet – thankfully.

饮迷:早在1920年代,上里奥哈的所有制模式和香槟区不无相似。这是为什么呢?

VU:是的,传统里奥哈模式和香槟区模式没有很大不同。基本而言,你从许多不同的农夫那里收购葡萄,当然你也自己种植,但大部分都是收购而来,然后再进行混合。所以,我们生产的佳酿酒要和一小部分其他年份酒混合,以确保品质始终在一个水准,就像香槟区的做法那样。我们的产品基于年份,但我们力图使佳酿酒的品质保持稳定,就像香槟区那样。这使得人们可以辨别出某一特定酒庄或品牌,有助于培养忠诚度——我认为这是我们酒庄在过去和现在取得成功的重要原因。

DRiNK: Back in the 1920s, the ownership model of Rioja Alta wasn’t too dissimilar to Champagne. How so?

VU: Yes, the traditional Rioja model wasn’t too different from the Champagne way of doing things: basically, you buy in fruit from many different farmers, you make your own, too, but you buy most of it, and then you blend. So, the crianza wine we make, we compensate sometimes with a small percentage of other vintages to make sure the quality is always at a certain range, much as they do in Champagne. In our case, it’s vintage based, but we strive for a consistency with the crianza wine, as they do in Champagne, and that helps people recognise a particular house, or a particular brand, and helps them be loyal to it – which, I think, goes a long way in explaining our success in the past, and now.

饮迷:里奥哈的年份差异如何?

VU:就皇家田园而言,只有在出色的年份才会生产年份酒——当然,这可能会令我们大为头疼。我们可能不会生产2013年份酒,另外我们略过了2006、2003和2002,而2014也不是一个出色的年份。因此,年份差异在我们这一西班牙产区是巨大的。比如,2013年孔蒂诺酒庄95%的收成都在9月5日被一场雹灾摧毁。

DRiNK: What is the vintage variation like in Rioja?

VU: With Imperial, we don’t make a vintage unless the year is excellent – which, of course, can cause huge headaches. We likely won’t make a 2013, we skipped 2006, 2003, 2002 – 2014 was a not a great vintage, either. Because of the drought, 2012 and 2011 were good but short; so, yes, vintage variation in our part of Spain is huge for us. In 2013, for Contina, for instance, 95 per cent of the harvest was wiped out by a hailstorm on September 5.

饮迷:有波尔多年份有类似之处吗?

VU:它们并非完全不同。波尔多的坏年份肯定也是我们的坏年份。2003年是热浪,2002年是高湿度,1997年很糟糕,1993和1992同样如此。2000年波尔多很出色,我们也不差。2001年他们不太好,但我们十分出色。2005年他们和我们都很好。因此,是的,波尔多和里奥哈的地理差异实际上并不大。他们降雨量比我们高,但总体而言这两个产区是相似的。

DRiNK: Are there parallels with Bordeaux’s vintages?

VU: They’re not totally different. Certainly a bad vintage for Bordeaux will be a bad vintage for us as well. In 2003, the heat wave; 2002, very wet; 1997, miserable, 1993, 1992, same; 2000 was great for them, not bad for us, too; 2001 wasn’t so good for them, excellent for us; 2005 was excellent for both them and us. So, yes, there’s actually not a huge difference, geographically, from Bordeaux and Rioja. They get much more rainfall than we do but, yes, as a general rule of thumb the two regions are similar.

孔蒂诺、布莱克、维纳和皇家田园葡萄酒在Boutique Wines Asia有售。请访问www.boutiquewines-asia.com。 Contino, Black by CVNE, Vina Real and Imperial wines are available from Boutique Wines Asia,  www.boutiquewines-asia.com.

更多详情,请点击下方“阅读原文”访问《DRiNK饮迷》官方网站。Please click 'Read more' for the original post on DRiNKmagazine.asia

               
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